Tell us something we don't know....

topic posted Thu, January 17, 2008 - 3:56 PM by  ali
But we love seeing it in scientific study terms...finally!

www.sciencedaily.com/release...0306.htm
posted by:
ali
offline ali
Seattle
  • Re: Tell us something we don't know....

    Wed, January 23, 2008 - 3:48 PM
    *smacks forehead with palm* D'oh!!

    well, at least it'll say something to those who need....no, NNEEEEEEEDD emperical research to finally *get it* LOL
    • Re: Tell us something we don't know....

      Wed, January 23, 2008 - 4:48 PM
      I also wonder why a study like this, that involves only a few minutes every couple of years (i.e. not a big demand on the researchers' time) would focus specifically on women and have not had the broader focus and included men... hmmm? Mildly frustrating because it seems (from the outside anyway) to indicate that the researcher had an axe to grind with regard to "women's issues" and was therefore totally disinterested in the same issues pertaining to men. So although I don't need anyone to tell me I'm bi, when gay guys tell me to "get off the fence" or say ignorant things to me like "as a gay man I've had sex with women in the past because there was social pressure for me to conform, but I don't see where there's social pressure for you to suck dick" (happened before a stand-up comics' open-mic in Austin), I can point to this study, but it has to be with the caveat that "I presume the same likely holds true for men"... because the researcher couldn't bring herself to manage the data for both genders.
      • Re: Tell us something we don't know....

        Wed, January 23, 2008 - 5:24 PM
        Maybe she couldn't manage the data, or maybe she had it and it indicated men were either gay, bi, or straight, with little variation over time. l think that probably tends to be true for the men, and l'm not entirely sure how it pertains to the researcher having an 'axe to grind' when the article seems to be in support of women. Could you clarify? l'm curious as to what the men here think about their bisexuality - fluid or definitive? The evidence of this study supports my thoughts on women as well. However, l don't believe it was some deliberate attempt to exclude men. You seem to be interpreting it that way, which l don't understand, and apologize if l'm wrong, but why is the researcher obligated to include a similar study on men if that wasn't her focus?
        • Re: Tell us something we don't know....

          Wed, January 23, 2008 - 8:26 PM
          Well I didn't mean it in a "combative" way... it was just a bit disappointing and mildly frustrating.

          My reasons for saying that she could have managed the data for men in addition (all this information was given in the article):

          - 10 yr longitudinal study
          - 80 women in the study
          - 2-yr intervals

          That's a total of 400 individual surveys over the 10 yr period. Now even if I didn't have a computer (which she almost certainly has) to manage the data, I would think doubling it to 800 total surveys over a period of 10 yrs time would be not a back-breaking ordeal... That's six surveys per month instead of 3. I would also bet that the surveys themselves are distributed by mail or the like to be filled out by the participants in their own time, so that takes some additional weight off the researchers' workload. At the end of the 10 yr period, you've got 400 or 800 surveys to tabulate. It's maybe a few days to get it entered into the spreadsheet. And you probably want to store the physical surveys for posterity -- they should all fit neatly in a small file box.

          Then there's the tone of the article, which I realize wasn't written by the researcher, so it could just be the journalist. To me at least the tone suggests a certain attitude on the part of the people involved. The first sentence in particular, which from what I understand of journalism is supposed to be the most important part of the article, hooking the reader and prepping them for what's to come: "Bisexuality in women appears to be a distinctive sexual orientation and not an experimental or transitional stage that some women adopt "on their way" to lesbianism, according to new research published by the American Psychological Association." ... What I noted in that sentence is that there are several different ways that could be phrased, for example "bisexuality is not an experimental or transitional phase that women adopt temporarily between homosexual and heterosexual periods in their life" or "bisexuality is not an experimental phase that women grow out of". To me it seemed like they were careful to place the phrase "on their way to lesbianism". Though I'm willing to admit that's just my perception and it could very well be tainted by the fact that I was disappointed that they didn't include men in the study.

          My totally non-scientific guess about her "axe" would be that she was frustrated with self-identified lesbians telling her to "get off the fence", or making the same kind of comments I mentioned re: the guy at the comedy club in Austin. And so she decided to do the study and good for her! I'm glad she did. I just wish that it had been about "people" rather than about "women", because I suspect I've experienced the same sort of attitudes that prompted her to do the study. I'm not her, I don't know her, never spoken to her, so yeah, I'm just guessing here.

          I could be way off-base, it just felt kind of "elitist" to me (for lack of a better word).
          • Re: Tell us something we don't know....

            Wed, January 23, 2008 - 9:44 PM
            ok - youve made good points - and it is amazing how long it takes to fully explain even a single introductory sentence when interpretation is the purpose... *smile*

            as a for-the-purposes-of-this-discussion-self-labelling-bisexual-male, i can certainly understand the frustration with the "it is just a phase on the way to full-gay" or "get off the fence" comments that you have prolly had to endure mainly from the gay community. otoh, my experience has shown that males and females DO seem to experience bisexuality differently in general.

            for instance, of the "experimentally bisexual" people ive met - the men generally have gone (thru time) to identify with a single sexuality. unfortunately due to cultural-norms and gender conditioning, the men are also more vociferous about their "decisions". the women, otoh, have quietly gone about their sexuality and continue to remain bisexual. this is just my experience and judgment-call about the "scene" as it were.

            for instance, over on myspace, im a member of a self-labelling heteroflexible group. the idea being to insert another shade of color between the black-white-grey (where bi is grey) between hetero and bi. this group was started by a woman, and the energy and balance that the guys and gals bring to the group are oftentimes very different. yeah, yeah - i know - guys and gals are different... duh. the point is - _I_ would label her as bi and just be done with it, since she is clearly not happy with being labelled strictly hetero.

            in my particular case, i am finding that currently i am at a color that is more homo than bi. whether this is a phase that i will transition to full-gay or not, i cannot foresee. however it is very tempting to try to get strict with myself and "get off the fence". in particular since ive decided that i would like my next relationship to be with a guy, since ive not tried that - and i want to learn about myself. im not completely closed off to meeting the right gal, but since i am not pursuing dating any gals the odds are minimal it would happen.

            regardless - it was an interesting link - thanx for posting it... :)

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