Ok, so I am a bisexual male... Attractive to boot... who has a "straight" girlfriend. Even though I entered this relationship in total honesty I have found myself trapped in a situation where a beautiful, honest, powerful woman is pouring her heart into my life... so long as I am devoted solely to her. While this is a great exchange because she is the catch of all catches... (in the straight world) I am left feeling like I am not being entirely truthful to myself. I would love to hear from other, self identified bisexuals who have any experience in this type of situation. I love my partner and see her for all of her glory and gifts.... Although I still feel like I am missing something of myself. This missing component is more about myself than about needing another lover.. but somehow it ties all together.
I know some other tried and true bi lovers here will have some insight. I feel like it's take 30 years to identify myself as open-minded enough to be comfortable loving either sex... but life and society have there own choke holds on the possibilities.
ADVICE?
Tanks,
-Soulself
I know some other tried and true bi lovers here will have some insight. I feel like it's take 30 years to identify myself as open-minded enough to be comfortable loving either sex... but life and society have there own choke holds on the possibilities.
ADVICE?
Tanks,
-Soulself
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Tue, September 18, 2007 - 7:52 PMGenerally you could to find a balance being with
people of other gender, if you allow
yourself more than one partner. Depends
what relationship style you have...
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Wed, September 19, 2007 - 8:18 AMThere are a ton of sexually active, closeted bi men out there. My general advice is to not be one of them. What kind of life is that to live (, Senator Craig)? I'm not saying that's where you automatically end up if you don't address this with your partner, but it's certainly possible.
When you say you entered the relationship in total honesty, what does that mean? It could mean you honestly thought you were straight and that there were no issues. It could mean you were honest with her about your bisexuality, in which case any advice I might offer would be starkly different!
-- Clown
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Wed, September 19, 2007 - 10:36 AMWell, for the most part Linz *is* straight. I mean we get into things, but if she ends up playing with a girl the truth of the matter is it's always going to have more to do the experience with me than her raw attraction to another woman. We've talked that out, and we accept it, we're even a little turned on by how taboo it is. It's all so very *modern*. lol
Seriously, that doesn't seem to be your problem. Like I said Linz is straight and knew from the jump I was bisexual and I'd say sexually, and within our relationship that's been the *least* of our worries. Being straight has nothing to do with it.
BUT, the heart also wants what it wants,
Incidentally, so does the penis. ;)
There's the difference, while your attraction to men may be anywhere on the relationship spectrum to a partner from *hot* to *disgusting*. That's just the way people are wired. You have the right to be attracted to men, she has the right to be repulsed by the idea. Some people just will be.
Then again, maybe it's not a matter of sexuality at all but a matter of the heart entirely, maybe she just hates the idea of sharing you in a relationship at *all* even if she is enlightened to the miriad possibilities of sexuality today. Then, you're dealing with a preference that's purely a question of monogamy.
Now, you know me. You've learned by now I don't sugar coat things right? Either of those last two possibilities bode ill, especially in the long term. But TAKE HEART! There is a beauty of nature called the gentlemanly wiles (yes ladies, we have them too, especially us effeminate ones ;)
Maybe you're just trying to move from the icebox to the hot-tub. Maybe all the two of you need is a healthy dose of rampant experimentation, both of you, taking care to ease in to these new ideas and possibilities.
And remember, as ususal-
If having sex with me will help at *all* you just let me know.
(see, now *that*'s a dedicated advice columnist! ;) -
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Thu, September 20, 2007 - 6:48 AMthanks Angel.
I think it's much more bout your last option. The lady in question simply wants to be the "only" one...which I undrstand, b ut don't personally relate to. I don't feel like adding others would actually diminish our relationship... actually quite the opposite. -
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Thu, September 20, 2007 - 3:08 PMThis is why I refuse to get involved with hetero women.
I can't give them the relationship that they want.
I'm not into even having serious relationships with women.
I'm fine with having a friendship with benefits or just VERY casual dating where we have just sex. -
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 6:47 AMI have to agree with Newt on this one. I've been married to a straight woman (divorced now) and have dated countless others, and it just doesn't seem to work for me. Of course men and women are wired differently, but it's even more complicated when you add the bi-straight complications.
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 12:38 AMtwo cents from the ladies' peanut gallery...
I'm a bi woman (now in a relationship with a bi man - yay!) but I was married monogamously and faithfully to a het man for 24 years. Now, I'm not sayin it was easy and I sure wouldn't do it again but I think it's more an issue of whether your partner is open to being polyamorous than to whether or not she's straight. I discovered that I'm poly and I needed a poly partner.
I know of many couples who are poly, where one of the partners is straight and one is bi and there is no problem having another relationship along with the primary one. I also know of bi individuals who are wired for monogamy and wouldn't dream of dating outside of their committed relationship.
Your girlfriend's just probably wired for monogamy, that's all. I guess you have to figure out if you're willing to be okay with that long term. If not, then a partner (whether gay, bi or straight) who is wired for polyamory is likely more suited to what you want.
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Mon, October 29, 2007 - 9:34 PM< mean we get into things, but if she ends up playing with a girl the truth of the matter is it's always going to have more to do the experience with me than her raw attraction to another woman. >
And to a bi woman, this situation is completely obnoxious, having been on the receiving end when one IS into the woman who is with the guy...never again.
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 12:08 PMSoulself,
I have been living in a relationship that really isn't me. I haven't had any sexual contact with anyone,including my wife for over 7yrs. Be true to yourself.
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Sat, October 6, 2007 - 4:45 AMShe's not the catch of catches for you if she needs you to be monogamous, and you need both men and women. -
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Thu, January 3, 2008 - 8:50 AM.
We love who we love, for who they are... not who we want them to be.
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Fri, January 4, 2008 - 4:51 AMok - soulself, you love your girlfriend for who she is - and that is (you tell us) a heterosexual monogamous female. youve decided that something is "missing" from your life. at first you thought it had to do with your bisexuality, since she is not male. now, youve come to the conclusion that it is polyamory - since you would like to "add" a male into your relationship repertoire. lets just work with the idea that you are currently unsatisfied with the relationship (with your girlfriend) as it stands.
it seems to me that either issue could be brought into a discussion with your girlfriend in a non-threatening way. perhaps it has been a long time since you mentioned your bisexuality to her and you just need her to acknowledge your feelings again. i would bring up the discussion in a query that started along the lines of - "im thinking of adding some spice or kinkiness to our sexual relationship - what are your thoughts?" if she is GGG (as dan savage would explain), then she should be willing to listen to you (at least). and guess what, you will need to listen to her too... she may be perfectly happy with the relationship as it stands or maybe she has some of her own desires that youre not meeting. if you engage in the conversation with love, then maybe between the two of you - yall can work out something that will satisfy your needs...
there is a lot of satisfaction that can be gained thru innocent flirting - and maybe you just need to let her know that you would like to flirt with some guys for awhile. if yall havent had the bisexuality discussion in a long time, id warn her before actually doing the flirting. if it really is a polyamory issue, then it might truly be a deal-breaker. bottom line is - you wont know the specifics without bringing them up to her and having the discussion(s).
otoh, there are lots and lots of preparatory thought processes that you can do beforehand. some of them youre doing here - asking others and listening to your own responses for clarifications. another would be to imagine some alternative scenarios and work out how your feelings might change. for example, what if your girlfriend were actually a boyfriend - do you think you would feel the need to seek out womens attentions? would it be about the fact that it is the relationship-opposite sex? or would it be about the limitations of monogamy? another example, what if your girlfriend approached YOU about opening up the relationship? would you be jealous? remember, she would be saying this in spite of all the good things within your own relationship... how far would you allow yourself to go before you feel youd betrayed something important in your relationship? how far would you allow HER to go before you think that she had betrayed something important?
the issue could be something totally unrelated to bisexuality or polyamory. maybe there has been a shift in the power-dynamics of your relationship. i, personally, have found that sex - in particular - has a lot to do with feelings of power. hence there is a bdsm fetish that is fairly universal. love, otoh, is usually not about power - at least it isnt for me.
ok - this is a long first post, but ive been lurking here for quite awhile and am intensely curious to find out how this situation plays out... i, personally, have never entered into a relationship with full bisexuality disclosure. whenever im in a relationship with a straight gal - im just straight - and eventually i drive them away when the "bi" feelings get too strong to ignore. thus, i could be completely off-base with anything ive said. i truly wish you luck.
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 4:05 PMHow about writing her a letter that details all the things you love about her (first) and where she stands with you (what every girl wants to know) as far as her importance in your life. Then explain that while this is true, there is another part of you that won't ever change in that you believe that....I'm figuring here...you don't want to limit your growth in life by only being with one person, and that you have an attraction to men also and feel that you have a space in your life that is lacking if you don't have it filled. Then end again how much you appreciate her. By presenting it that way, it won't be so painful for her to accept. -
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Mon, October 15, 2007 - 11:19 PMSchirin gets a special star by her name.
=) -
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Sat, January 5, 2008 - 1:32 AMDid you do it? Talk to her or write her a letter?
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Sun, January 6, 2008 - 8:56 AMBRAVO!!!
It is so worth this.
I had a friend who did this many years ago with his girlfriend and it helped her understand him so much more (He was poly in his heart and she was not).
They were able to talk things out then and know that he loved her but since was not wired that way and could not be with him any longer but she told him that he showed so much respect for her that is made things easier in the long run. -
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Tue, January 8, 2008 - 2:44 PMCindy,
You've pretty much nailed it.
We've talked about it at length... over several years.
And she's just not wired for it. -
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Tue, January 8, 2008 - 9:21 PMSo can i ask how can you make it work....
Do you just put your feelings and thoughts and desires on the back burner??? -
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Tue, January 8, 2008 - 10:57 PMIn a sense, I guess I do put my bi feelings on the back burner.
Tribe is a great outlet to flirt and express ideas.
As I said, I've always been out about my interests with my lady. And occasionally she will play with it in terms of pillow talk or in an off the cuff moment... but she is not interested in exploring it physically. I'm not totally sure why. I guess you might say it was her wiring.
I did get her a strap on in a move to pull her into some play. We used it once and it never really surfaced again.
So much of our relationship is so good that it's been ok to accept the trade off. But sometimes I do wonder if I'm making the strongest moves for my own higher self. Hence the post. -
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Tue, January 8, 2008 - 11:08 PM"Bi feelings?" I'm guessing here you mean same-sex feelings.
I've met quite a few gay men whose "bi side" consisted of having sex with women.
So I'd just like to state for the record that I'm tired of hearing "bi" to mean "same-sex." That is all. -
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You *GO* Grrrl!
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 12:35 PM>>>oh, snap<<<
I just lurves it when wimmin get in touch with their inner snap queen.
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 5:03 AMok - i was answering cindy and missed souls clarification again. soul, if all you need is some pegging from your wife occassionally to satisfy you - then that is a simple GGG discussion. read some dan savage columns. basically, just ask to add the kink in - and keep asking, remember it is YOUR kink. otoh, make sure you ask and are GGG for any kinks that SHE may start requiring. compromise on this level (kinks) should be a LOT easier than the other level (bi or homo poly), but thats just my opinion. also, if vanilla is her thing - you have to respect that and follow thru. gl.
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 12:22 PM"I did get her a strap on in a move to pull her into some play. We used it once and it never really surfaced again."
"So much of our relationship is so good that it's been ok to accept the trade off. But sometimes I do wonder if I'm making the strongest moves for my own higher self. Hence the post."
What l'm hearing is that your need to have a more sexually exploratory lifestyle is getting stronger, and that since you are not encouraged to have a man, you're coming up with other methods that might satisfy that. However, two things stand out for me.
One, if you got her a strap on to pull her into some play - and surprised her with it - she probably felt pressured, and maybe like she wasn't enough. lf she knew about it, encouraged it, and then lost interest after one time, then what you seem to have is a stalemate; you want to honor her feelings about it but still need the semblance of same sex play (and she seems to lack both the interest and the desire/ability to be dominating), and she wants to give that to you, but really, truly isn't turned on. This ties into the second observation, which is that some tradeoffs are possible - and some are not. lf you can make the tradeoff without ever thinking of it further, then you weren't giving up anything that was super important to begin with. lf you make the tradeoff for someone else's comfort, it's automatically going to be a noble but troublesome move, because once you're not getting what you've been used to having, and you've rarely if ever given that particular thing up, you are going to think on it more, wish for it, wonder why you're giving up something you were never asked to give up before, and/or resent her for it. And that's no good, because neither of you asked for this. What you *did* fail to do was think through what the consequences of that tradeoff would mean for YOU. Because she didn't trade anything for your bisexuality. She's got exactly what she wants, and deflecting play every so often isn't near as challenging as squashing a growing need.
l don't mean to make her sound like an asshole. l doubt she manipulated you into this, and you did it because you cared for her and it seemed worthwhile in comparison to losing or hurting her at the time. But here you are, and you need to bring this up with her gently, but firmly, and ask her if there is a way to rearrange this agreement, and if there can be a solution to your differences. Ask her why you being bi (and any other activities she's not into) makes her uncomfortable, and if there's anything that you can do to make the whole thing more palatable.
This is a crossroads in your relationship. This is where you both are tested, and l don't see much way around it other than prolonging it painfully. You need to express yourself - and remember to reassure her why she's important to you - and you need to find out what this means for your relationship. You owe that to both of you. l really sincerely hope you can work things out, but l think you know it's time to talk. Keep us updated.
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>>>"I did get her a strap on in a move to pull her into some play. We used it once and it never really surfaced again."<<<
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 12:46 PMThere are some, I believe unfortunate, assumptions in some responses to this statement.
Yes, having your partner do you with a strap-on is lovely. Yes, it's better to get some ass play than to get none. But (a) wanting to have a male partner/lover/fuckbuddy has nothing to do with it and (b) playing with a same sex partner doesn't necessarily include ass play. The latter assumption bugs me particularly since it's so widely held. Many men who do men don't do anal. And there's nothing about anal sex that is essentially homoerotic.
As far as the relationship issues I believe Ali said what I'd say, only better. -
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Re: >>>"I did get her a strap on in a move to pull her into some play. We used it once and it never really surfaced again."<<<
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 1:17 PMyeah - we would have to ask soul for clarifications here. is he missing guys? guys cocks? or guys cocks in his ass? and what are HIS meanings and feelings about these missing items - how is he willing to compromise? for all we know this could just be fantasy issues at the moment. soul, have you HAD anal sexual relations with guys? im sorry if this was covered elsewhere, but i missed it.
experience is a whole lot different than fantasy. im not trying to downplay his needs - theres still LOTS of GGG room to work with in his relationship, but maybe he can still explore a bit more of his own feelings here before exposing them to the harsh-reality of a discussion with his gf. one could argue that the fact that he is not having this discussion with her is a symptom of something, but i wont. we all need outside-relationship friends to help us keep perspective sometimes... soul, still there? do you need us? or is it time to chat with the gf?
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 4:53 AMit is not in this thread, but somewhere i read about a guy who had achieved the impossible that soul is trying to do. namely, this guy married het/mono - did some bi (homo only) on the down-low, altho with tacit approval iirc - eventually did more bi (homo only) upfront - and has finally come full-circle into being bi/poly while still maintaining the marriage...
i shouldve bookmarked the thread where i read it - it was all about him not pushing her buttons over YEARS of back-burner-cooking.
im old and dont think the odds are in souls favor to repeat the accomplishment, but... he is young and if he can believe enough in himself, his gf, and their relationship to try and make it work - it just might happen. i think he doubts his gf and her ability to adjust. he can either take a chance and TRY, or he can take a chance and leave, or he can play it safe and remain unhappy. relationships require compromise - and hence unhappiness to a certain extent. hopefully the benefits outweigh the costs.
not having a core-belief in common between he and his gf is a possible deal-breaker. i personally do not have any experience in this regard, sorry. i think it mightve been in ethical-sluts-tribe where i read the post i described. i, as soul, believe that love is a growth-emotion. the more you give, the more you CAN give. monogamy (as he is portraying it via his gf) is a limited-emotion. you only have so much you can give, so it had better be spent wisely.
i will grant you that as humans, we are limited - i can only stay up so many hours or spend so much time with one activity (lovemaking included). however, i have a core-belief that love is an emotion that is not a limited commodity. its EXPRESSION might be limited by me, but the love-itself is a growth item. as an obvious example - when a hetero couple make babies, suddenly there is more love to go around. not more time maybe, but definitely more love - imo.
i hope soul can take the challenge and have faith in himself, his gf, and/or their relationship (which already has years of history holding it together) to express his "newborn" love. unfortunately, some relationships do fail when faced with tough issues like how to raise a newborn - especially if the partners cannot agree on core values...
gl and hugs, h.
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Sun, October 28, 2007 - 8:34 PMIf you have to be devoted solely to her to keep the relationship, the bottom line is she's changing you into something you're not.
Eventually one of you might feel short changed. Would you rather it's you, or her? -
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 1:44 PMThis assumes she's deliberately trying to hurt him. l think it's obvious that the problem here is he doesn't want anyone to feel short-changed. lt's true that one of them will, but perhaps a little compassion for his situation is appropriate. -
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 3:54 PMuh - did i say somethin wrong? maybe the adjective harsh was inappropriate - but i was trying to be compassionate otherwise. i sincerely do wish him luck. i guess _I_ was feeling that if i was putting my own emotional energy into a man that is just dealing with his fantasies, that i was wasting my time. i like to be upfront as much as possible - and i would expect the same in return. sometimes we really are just confused - and for that, i would sincerely offer to help as much as i can. at this point, i realized _I_ was confused and wanted some clarifications from him...
ali - you might be right (altho i feel it is far from obvious to me what the problems are) - i should probably step away from this discussion for awhile. soul - good luck. feel free to keep chatting, and unless asked - ill refrain from volunteering my thoughts (at least for awhile). :) -
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Unsu...
Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 9:45 PMHi folks,
To be up front, I appreciate everyone's opinions. Tribe offers us this great opportunity to share things we might not share. Hence this thread.
It's been quite a while since I made this initial post and there's been a lot of water under the bridge. As I mentioned I've always been open with my partner about my own sexual interests. I had hoped that that approach might bring us closer together. But, to be honest with myself, it hasn't. If anything it's helped to push us a part, sadly. I truly love this lady... and I don't want to hurt her... or myself. She's wonderful and I would love to share all facets of my life with her. At this point she seems clearly uninterested in exploring sexuality outside of our vanilla/hetero relationship. So it seems we are to do the breakup dance. My heart aches over it, but I'm just not sure what else to do. -
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I'm sorry, soulself.
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 4:27 AMAll I can say is I hope you can be kind to each other in the process of going your separate ways.
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 6:19 AM
Soulself...
Hold this in your heart.
She is a wonderful, loving human being... and so... you are worthy of relationships with wonderful, loving people.
and as you walk away from eachother... you are both made better by ever increasing self-knowledge.
you have refined and honed ever a little more...
who and what you are.
as has she.
praise each other for the gift you gave each other.
thank each other for it.
The pain is the same, but, having clarity of why the pain *needs* to be... helps us resist it less.
You don't have to embrace the pain, but welcome it...
and allow it's departure, without clinging when it is that time.
This will help to open the door to whoever needs to come into your life next.
good luck.
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Re: Biguys and Straight girls
Wed, January 23, 2008 - 5:33 PMSoul, l just want to say that l'm sorry. People think of the relationships that are great, or the ones that are shitty, and forget the challenges of those that would be wonderful were it not for one or two very distinct differences that simply don't mesh. l wonder sometimes if those aren't the hardest. However, l sincerely applaud your ability to know what you need and stay firm in that, even if it means you must risk pain in order to do so. l have definitely been there, and l wish you speedy but thorough healing and personal resolution.
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Harold, wait!
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 4:23 AMThe threading here can be misleading. I don't think Ali was specifically responding to your comments (but then I may be mistaken... as I said it can be misleading.) -
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Re: Harold, wait!
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 5:22 AMhi kim - tis true, ali was NOT responding to me (at least according to the threading, which ive just now looked at) - i dont normally read the comments threaded - but it was clear to me i was getting too involved anyway - a little step away seemed called for. as you saw, i dont plan to leave - just needed to step back. thanx for your concern tho. hugs, h. -
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Re: Harold, wait!
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 6:54 PMSoul, you're making the right decision for you, and ultimately for both of you. Bi and Poly don't always have to go together, but they often do. TheSweetie and I are both bi, and poly, but there are stretches where by all accounts we look (and act) like a hetrero/mono couple - meaning we'll date and play, then take a hiatus, then back at it again we'll go. But we both want the same things long term, and realize that denying our true poly nature just isn't happy making stuff.
I hope once you come out of the other side of this breakup dance, you'll find someone who's wonderful, AND accepts and loves you for what you are - including being a bisexual man. i wish you a peaceful journey through this important (and unpleasant) step.
Hugs,
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Re: Harold, wait!
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 11:41 AMThank you, Kristina.
Your sentiments are empowering. -
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Re: Harold, wait!
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 3:14 PMYou are most welcome.
Growth isn't always easy, or for that matter initially pleasant - but oh, so very worth it.
Come here for support and healing. You're among friends. :)
Kristina -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Harold, wait!
Tue, January 22, 2008 - 10:16 PM>"Bi feelings?" I'm guessing here you mean same-sex feelings.
I've met quite a few gay men whose "bi side" consisted of having sex with women.
So I'd just like to state for the record that I'm tired of hearing "bi" to mean "same-sex." That is all. <
If they're having sex with women why the fuck are they lying to themselves and everyone else and calling themselves gay?
As a gay man I have ZERO interest in having sex with women and if I did have any interest in it (as well as having sex with men) I certainly wouldn't lie to myself and everyone else about it and call myself "gay" while dating/having sex with women or wanting to have sex with women. -
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Re: Harold, wait!
Wed, January 23, 2008
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